Have you read about the latest gay study? Apparently, the more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be gay. Significantly, the statistics held for biological brothers raised apart, but not for genetically unrelated brothers raised together. It's another argument that queers are born and not raised. It's something we know, but I think the validation is a good thing. You? Do you feel it's helpful or necessary? How about we do our own little informal study? If you're gay, what was your sib situation? I'll start. I have one older brother, but the study indicates that they counted gestations (to include pregnancies ending early or with stillbirth, if the sex of the baby was known) and not just births, so in that case I have two. The reason they did this is because they feel that a mother's immune system may play a part in creating the gay. It recognizes a male fetus as "foreign" and may react to it more strongly with each exposure/gestation, possibly affecting the fetus' brain chemistry or development. If you care to share your family situation, get comment-y, yo.
Tuesday, June 27, 2006
No burden is he to bear
Have you read about the latest gay study? Apparently, the more older brothers you have, the more likely you are to be gay. Significantly, the statistics held for biological brothers raised apart, but not for genetically unrelated brothers raised together. It's another argument that queers are born and not raised. It's something we know, but I think the validation is a good thing. You? Do you feel it's helpful or necessary? How about we do our own little informal study? If you're gay, what was your sib situation? I'll start. I have one older brother, but the study indicates that they counted gestations (to include pregnancies ending early or with stillbirth, if the sex of the baby was known) and not just births, so in that case I have two. The reason they did this is because they feel that a mother's immune system may play a part in creating the gay. It recognizes a male fetus as "foreign" and may react to it more strongly with each exposure/gestation, possibly affecting the fetus' brain chemistry or development. If you care to share your family situation, get comment-y, yo.
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I'm bi. I have one older brother.
This data leads me to speculate that homosexuality may be an evolutionary adaptation to overpopulation. If you have a whole bunch of kids, it's probably best if they don't all become breeders. Thoughts?
That's an interesting theory, CB. My problem with it is that evolution isn't really concerned with overpopulation. Evolution favors the productive. Genes are passed on if the progeny flourishes to pass them on. Could be something to it, though. The authors of the study theorize a situation similar to the more familiar situation of Rh compatibility. When an Rh(-) mother is pregnant with her first Rh(+) baby, her immune system is activated against the "foreign" Rh factor. The next Rh(+) baby is at risk as her immune system will have built up antibodies to that factor in the baby's blood. Similarly, they feel that with each successive boy being recognized as "foreign", the mother's immune system will respond more strongly and possibly affect his development in ways they still don't understand. Fascinating, no? I'm not sure this particular study has any ramifications for females who are lesbian or bisexual, but it would be interesting to see if birth order has any significance with lesbianicity (!).
nice theory -- doesn't apply here tho. i'm gay - oldest of 2 boys. bro's a breeder.
One older brother and two younger brothers. I'm the Gay of the lot.
Thanks for the input, Dennis. Of course they are only commenting on the likelihood of being gay as a consequence of birth order. I think it's fairly well-established that becoming gay is multi-factorial.
q-60's, yeah, their theory would only apply to men.
What does disturb me about this is the suggestion that a factor in being gay results from an immune system malfunction, fueling the fire of those who want to label homosexuality as a malady. Same thing goes for some of the other lines of research. Are they pinpointing "what went wrong"? That's why I wondered aloud about the value of this kind of research.
You are still awake again?? what is the time michael?
I am sure that the amount of variables within such a study would make it lack credibility anyway. But yes creating a malady of the homosexual position would be another nightmare...
Actually nothing ever went "wrong" did it - one could speculate that it went very right : )
Beau, our small sample is not bearing this out, is it? As you well know, that's the problem with small samples.
Q-60's, awake yet? Yep. It's not quite 7:00 PM here. I don't necessarily agree that the study lacks credibility. They had a fairly sizeable sample. I don't think they purport to EXPLAIN gay, just a factor that my contribute to it. I do agree that most of these studies can be a little disturbing, not inherently, but for how the results will be used (abused). And it's a whole other discussion, but yeah, one could argue about "what went right." Kind of the point of the recent X-Men movie, eh? Would you change it if you could?
Sure but sample size alone will not rule out the usual issues associated with variables and i bet there would certainly be some shaky ground... still... really in the end it is about people who feel right and feel correct in themselves but still need some validation on a societal/ social level. And you know i am talking very basically here because of course this ties into the issue of 'rights' at the end of the day - and thats a whole other discussion : )
Havent seen the X-Men movie yet would you believe. Although it would have been nice to see wings on girls. I do like playing dress ups, well i use to ; )
I have two sisters, both older.
I think this argument is interesting because it's a bit of a double edged sword, net pas? If there is a biological pre-cursor then a) the possible search for a 'cure' that this might kick-off is kind of insulting and negative but then b) it goes some way towards arguing against the nutjobs that say it is a lifestyle choice that can be cured through abstinence, prayer, conditioning etc a la "Love In Action".
Hmmmmmmmm.
Well I'm gayer than .... erm ... well .. pretty much everything actually, and I don't have any older brothers. In fact, I don't have any brothers at all. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
I do however have one younger sister, who recently came out as a ::whispers:: lesbian. So I'm no longer the only pink sheep in the family. Damn baby sister, raining on my gay pride parade.
So better than any brothers it seems, is to come from an ultra-conservative upper-middle class Catholic family growing up in rural Australia. And oh yeah, throw in a domineering and neurotic mother. Yep, that will do it.
Andrew, yes exactly, a "double-edged sword." The same goes for the "gay gene" and for the differently developed areas in the gay brain. They all suggest nature vs. nurture/choice, but also tend to suggest a correctable abnormality, which is disturbing.
....is to come from an ultra-conservative upper-middle class Catholic family growing up in rural Australia.
Bodhi, it kind of cracks me up that we need only change ONE WORD (the last) in that sentence, and you become me.
Well see, there ya go. After very extensive and exhaustive research that statement utterly prooves my theory. Someone call a Department. Give me a research grant into this. How much cash are we talking? More importantly, do I get a whole bunch of cute just-outta-uni assistants? Hello? Hello? ...
Anyhoo, I think it also kinda makes us family [resisting urge to break into Sister Sledge's We are family]. Soooo, maybe I do now kinda have a brother.
BRO!!
((((HUG))))
We are family
I got all my sisters with me
We are family
Get up ev'rybody and sing
Ev'ryone can see we're together
As we walk on by
(FLY!) and we fly just like birds of a feather
I won't tell no lie
(ALL!) all of the people around us they say
Can they be that close
Just let me state for the record
We're giving love in a family dose ...
Oh shut-up. So sue me.
Dude, sue you? I was being a backup Pointer (but not the one with the warring teeth).
The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows when
But I'm strong
Strong enough to carry him
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
So on we go
His welfare is of my concern
No burden is he to bear
We'll get there
For I know
He would not encumber me
If I'm laden at all
I'm laden with sadness
That everyone's heart
Isn't filled with the gladness
Of love for one another.
It's a long, long road
From which there is no return
While we're on the way to there
Why not share
And the load
Doesn't weigh me down at all
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
He's my brother
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
love ya bro :-)
Just to clarify, all this "bro" talk will not preclude (and may indeed enhance) any fondle and fork, when we finally meet. Right?
hohoho
people are always trying to explain where we come from.
I'm still waiting for the explanation on how heterosexuality happens; explain that first!
Speaking of 'first', I am the oldest of four boys; the token queer (and the best dressed too thankyou)
It's always difficult when dealing with scientific studies because the question which was posed here is, is sibling gender and order a cause-and-effect in the determination of being gay. I don't think this study intends any causality at all, just identifying patterns. I'm on the multi-factorial bandwagon, myself. Nature and nurture with a little pepper-pot of Divine Inspiration thrown in.
People might believe that a cure can be found, but I think current medical and pharmaceutical experience taken into consideration, it isn't likely to happen for just about forever.
Personally, I think sexuality of all kinds arises both from nature as well as nurture/choice. I think folks are wired differently due to genetics, but I also think our experiences shape us differently and lead to different choices with respect to behaviors and identities.
So, for example, you could have a person who is "wired" genetically/chemically for queer but who lives in a heteronormative society (such as we do) and who thus lives their whole lives as a heterosexual. You could have folks "wired" genetically/chemically as bisexuals who, depending on their life experiences, choose to identify as gay, straight, or as bisexual. You could have any number of configurations, which we do.
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